by Ramona Pilar
About this Column:
When I was about to graduate form Graduate School, I realized I had no idea what I was supposed to do with an MFA in Creative Writing.
I was born and raised in the second tier of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, a survival mode of sorts: living moment to moment, reactive instead of proactive, ready to put out fires, real and imagined. That level of “readiness” without an actual crisis transformed into debilitating anxiety. I learned I lacked the mental space, energy, and experience to plan. Having that buffer is a type of privilege I’m only now learning to understand and practice. Hence going to grad school under the assumption that there were career answers there. They may have been, but I knew not where to look or what questions to ask of whom in order to build a career.
The initial intention was to teach, but the MFA program I attending didn’t really provide TA-ships or other teaching opportunities. Again, proactivity was not a strength I’d developed or a muscle I even knew I had; It was mythical.
At the end of it all, with fat debt and fatter doubts in my abilities, the time came to take my skills into the professional realm. I had just enough skills and aptitude in certain areas to be hyper-aware of how unqualified I was for everything remotely related to my interests and training.
I was a playwright, essayist, arts & film critic, and novice marketing/PR copywriter with no big-name bonafides and a drought of confidence. There was no “fake it ‘till you make it” for me.
Fast forward 10-ish years and here I am, in my early 40s, fighting the idea that I’ve wasted so much time trying to adhere to the strict rules of “the box” rather than considering an external box life. With this column – Storytelling in Action – I’m keen to reframe the experience of finally being able to focus on a career this late in the game (according to some timelines). I’m also highlighting and fangirling the folks who are doing the damn thing, taking writing and storytelling skills and applying them in professional spaces. Gatekeepers be damned!
Storytelling in Action
In the past 20 years, storytelling has come to mean something other than someone gesticulating wildly while narrating a story to children in order to keep their attention. “Narrative” and “personal stories” make up practically every facet of pop culture and marketing media.
Podcasts are one form of storytelling media that has erupted in popularity in recent years. They run the gamut from extremely well structured to loose and meandering, to scripted storytelling hearkening back to the days of radio dramas
Personally, I’ve been wanted to start a podcast for YEARS and have not. I’ve had a couple of starts but no follow-through. So when I saw that writer and colleague Andrea Gutierrez was transitioning out of a long, solid, professional career in education to pursue audio journalism and storytelling, I cheered from the sidelines and became a fan. She was doing what seemed daunting and impossible to me. She was recently a regular contributor to The Frame on KPCC (which is one of my dream organizations to work for).
Alternately, another writer and colleague Luivette Resto recently started a podcast called “Sipping Wine and Talking Shit” which is pretty much self-explanatory. The conversations range from discussing the poetry scene to asking What Would Prince Do? In each episode, Resto does her best to highlight boutique wineries and wines produced by women of color. The format is focused but relaxed, as Resto invites you into her living room while she and a guest sip the wine and talk the shit.
Since I’ve been sitting on these ideas for years, and these women have taken action, I reached out to them and asked questions about this storytelling form and their experiences with it. They were gracious and generous enough to share their time and insights.
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RP: What made you decide to pursue audio storytelling?
AG: I’ve had to answer this question so often over coffee and in job interviews lately! I worked as a university administrator in public higher education for a long time before making the transition to radio and podcasting. People always want to know the WHY and the HOW. I’ve always been a storyteller, it’s just the medium and/or platform that’s taken different forms. I have an MFA in Creative Nonfiction, I’m sometimes also a poet, and I’ve written for the stage. It was after my dad died while I was in grad school that I found something missing in my storytelling, but it would take me a while to realize what and why.
Around the time of the 2016 election, I was listening to a ton of public radio and podcasts at my day job, where I was itching to make a change, and started daydreaming about making my own podcast. There was something about it being directly related to an oral storytelling tradition that spoke to me. And then I started imagining my voice on the radio because I was so frustrated by the narrow lens that so much of the coverage took at the time.
I always risk getting in trouble with someone for saying this, but I don’t care: public radio was made by college-educated middle-class white people for college-educated middle-class white people. And as a Chicana from Southern California who never listened to public radio until I was 23, I felt like it wasn’t for me. But after election night, I said to myself, “You need me, public radio. You need people like me.” Luckily, there were a lot of other people already in the industry who felt the same. They’ve been extremely helpful.
LR: I wanted to challenge myself creatively. I still find joy in writing poetry but I wanted to try this medium. I also love wine =) So the idea of having a glass or two of wine with one of my friends as we discuss various topics, sounded fun to me. I also felt that it might be entertaining and educational to whoever is listening. In the end, this was my passion project, a way for me to find my joy again and it has served its purpose. Another motivation is to showcase small wineries on the show specifically wines made by women, women of color, or people of color. I think it is important to support small businesses especially ones owned by groups I just mentioned and if the podcast assists in that in any way then that is awesome.
RP: How has your writing background prepared you for this venture?
AG: I made a decision pretty quickly that I didn’t want to go to journalism school to make this transition. Having done the whole MFA thing and worked as a manuscript editor made J-school seem like overkill. The thing about audio storytelling is I’m still writing, I’m still telling stories. There’s a script and everything, even for sounds and other clips. But it’s like writing in extra dimensions because I’m also trying to make what we call “sound-rich” stories. I’m creating images with words AND sound.
But you know what I didn’t anticipate? The genre that has best prepared me to make radio and podcasts is poetry. With poetry, you’re paying attention to lyricism and rhythm, to where you take a breath, and there’s an economy of language makes or breaks a poem. You do the exact same thing when writing for the ear, especially with a broadcast clock! Honestly, everyone writing for radio and podcasts should be reading and writing and listening to poetry. It will make you a better writer.
LR: Poetry is storytelling, and many of my poems stem from things that have actually happened to me or I was privileged enough to have someone share their story and allow me to document it. Podcasting is a derivative of that in a conversation form. The topics are guided but there is a fluidity about it as well. However, depending on who is on the show, I will have certain key points I would like to touch upon.
RP: Has audio storytelling informed the other kinds of storytelling you do? If so, how?
AG: I have less patience for extraneous words! Get to the point, make sure each word is vital. I’m also more aware of various senses in my writing, not just sounds, but how do we convey meaning and story through those senses. It brings it all back to the body, where stories begin and end.
LR: I tend to have a lot of writers on the show and a lot of mothers who are trying to juggle life like I am. So the podcast has helped with promoting people’s work and I do include podcaster on my bio these days even though I am clearly a novice.
RP: What are some of your main storytelling inspirations? And particularly in the radio/podcasting field?
AG: I’d be lying if I didn’t say that This American Life was an original inspiration many years ago. It was a pioneer in that style of narrative storytelling but was also really white. More current inspirations feature BIPOC and/or LGBTQ+ stories and voices prominently, podcasts like Code Switch, It’s Been A Minute, Latino USA, Nancy, Ear Hustle, Throughline, The Heart, Moonface, and Short Cuts.
LR: I think for me it is grandmother and mother who remain the keepers of my family’s stories. My grandmother specifically holds so much knowledge, and I keep reminding myself to write all of the stories down before she passes. Digitally, I would say Locatora Radio.
RP: What kind of community and/or support system have you found in this field?
AG: I remembered advice from one of my MFA mentors, Susan Straight, one of the most generous and helpful writers I know. She urged us to regularly write notes of appreciation and gratitude to writers we admired. In transitioning to audio storytelling, I took that same advice and started emailing and tweeting at producers and reporters I admired. I’d tell them how much I loved their work or a recent story or episode, then ask for one tip for someone like me who was making that transition. I figured, the worst that could happen is they don’t answer.
Amazingly, most radio and podcast folks, especially BIPOC, are really kind and encouraging and I got replies from many people. The two best tips: 1) talk to a lot of people in the field, and 2) get the tech skills. So, I’ve been a voracious networker and also got the tech skills, including taking an audio production class at Pasadena City College where I learned how to use Pro Tools. It was simple but solid advice.
More than anything, I’ve been intentional about staying true to myself and being genuine about who I am and what I’m doing in radio and podcasting. I also came to this industry with my eyes wide open — no rose-colored glasses for me. I did my research! I’ve been told that these are things people in the field have noticed about me and appreciate.
LR: Right now my support system has been my family and friends. I also reached out to one of my female friends who recently started her own podcast about her dating life. I asked her for tips and suggestions as to which mic to buy. I also attended a Podcast 101 class led by Locatora Radio. They held a free one day workshop at a public library and I found it to be useful. It taught me how to get started but mainly to not be afraid. In that class, I partnered with another writer that I knew and they were one of the first ones to message me when they saw that I set mine up. It pushed them to theirs off the ground. So many folks are subscribing or wanting to come on the show, which I find funny because it is my kitchen table. Overall, the reception has been positive and people really just cannot wait to drink a bottle of wine with me and talk all of the things.
RP: Have you had any feelings of inadequacy or “not enough knowledge” that have challenged you? If so, how have you dealt/are you dealing with them? If not, why do you think that is?
AG: Of course, when you do something new and different, there’s always a moment of “WTF am I doing, this is hard.” I’ve had plenty of those. But I anticipated that going in. It’s not so much feelings of inadequacy as it’s the fact that public radio, in particular, as much as they say they’re all about diversity and inclusion, maintains the same pipelines they always have. If you didn’t get in on the bottom floor as an unpaid or underpaid intern after college at NPR or a member station, or received one of the few Kroc Fellowships at NPR (which didn’t even exist when I graduated college), then it’s hard to find a way in.
Public radio is not made for career changers, and even harder if you’re a career changer who, like me, didn’t grow up listening to public radio and only discovered it after college. I can’t tell you how many people in public radio have straight-up told me that all my prior experience doesn’t count. That kind of gatekeeping has only made me more determined to find my place as an audio storyteller, whether in public radio or in the chaotic burgeoning world of podcasting. My goal at any given moment has been to look for the people who want and value what I’m offering.
LR: Oh yes! I am still trying to figure out Garage Band LOL. I am learning about Buzzsprout and how to use that better. I am still learning on how to market the show better. All of this has been a learning process but it has been fun. The greatest challenge has been editing.
RP: What is your vision/are your future plans with audio storytelling?
AG: My first public radio job just ended. It was a year-long apprenticeship as a producer on The Frame, KPCC’s daily arts and entertainment show, which was not quite the beat I intended to cover but ended up being a really good fit. One of our guests, Tim Miller, a performance artist, said something that really resonated with me, that artists are best positioned to be cultural and political “first responders.” I think about how marginalized people have survived and thrived since time immemorial. I’m interested in how we continue to make art and process the world around us through art when our lives are on the line. That’s what I’m thinking when I’m booking guests and reporting stories.
As for next projects and future plans, stay tuned! I’m just getting started.
LR: I would love for the podcast to serve as a platform for boutique wines but mainly provide a safe space for folks to talk about topics that they are passionate about and as the wine pours go, folks tend to be more and more liberal with the shit-talking which is the fun part.
Ramona Pilar Gonzales writes, produces, and publishes plays, prose, and songs. Her works have been produced around Los Angeles, published online and in print, and performed across Southern California. Her dramatized essay “Del Plato a la Boca” was produced via a grant from La Plaza Cultura y Artes Foundation.